In classical mythology the three Fates (Moerae) were goddesses believed to determine a person's fate when he or she is born. They worked together to set the course of a person's life and determine his or her final end. Clotho spins the thread of life, Lakhesis measures out each person's days, and Atropos cuts the thread and chooses how and when a person is fated to die.
Agency is a philosophical term that refers to how free a person is to act independently in the world and have their choices influence the world. Free will is related to agency, but isn't exactly the same thing. Free will is how much control people have over their thoughts, choices, and actions from among a variety of options. This distinction is important, because someone could believe she has a strong degree of agency in her life (control over her choice of a spouse for example), but also still believe she was "destined" to meet that spouse, and also believe that meeting that special person was determined by things mostly outside her control (career/education/geography/time period & life span/etc.)
Using textual evidence, explain how you see fate, agency, and free will functioning in other parts of The Odyssey thus far. How do these representations of fate, agency, and free will resonate and/or clash with your understanding of 21st century life and beliefs? Do you think most people now believe in destiny or champion free will? Or is this too simple a question? Do contemporary beliefs fall somewhere in between?
In my opinion Odysseus thinks that he has control over every situatiuon he encounters. He seems to a be a character who feels that he is worthy to be exempt from punishment from his actions. We see this with the Cyclops. I am not sure if he was aware that Cyclpos was one of Poseidon's sons, but I do not think this would have changed his actions. He does as he sees fit regardless of the consequences. He thinks of himself as a god and in turn acts like he has no one to answer to. Circe tries to warn him of the fate he will bestow if he tries to fight Scylla. Circe has already told him that if he tries to fight he will die. But, Odyssesu seems to think that he has control over his own fate. "Can't I possibly cut and run from her and still fight Scylla off when Scylla strikes my men?" "So Stubborn! the lovely goddess countered. Hell-bent yet again on battle and feats of arms." Odysseus, no matter how much warning, sees himself as invcible. Perhaps he thinks that it is his detsiny to be a great warrior and he controls the outcome of all his battles. He is convinced that he will rise in all battles. I think most people feel they are in control of free will. I am one of these people. I believe that all of our actions meet us with a positve or negative consequence. But, I do not believe that these actions are predestined for us or that we have no control of our lives. We are very much in control of what happens to us. I think that many people in the 21st century still believe in destiny and fate. This is not a concept that has left us. Many people I know believe that everything happens for a reason and those reasons lead us where we are supposed ot be in life.
ReplyDeleteThere is a quote that I think tells a lot about how fate and free will work among the gods in the first part of the book: "And now for his blinded son the earthquake god---though he won't quite kill Odysseus---drives him far off course from native land. But come, all of us here put heads together now, work out his journey home so Odysseus can return. Lord Poseidon, I trust, will let his anger go." This quote by Zeus shows that Odysseus' fate is to return home and suffer along the way, and so Poseidon can't stop that from happening. Poseidon does have free will, though, so he can decide what actions will occur to Odysseus on the way. After they all leave the island of the cattle of the sun god, a storm completely destroys their ship, and Odysseus is the only one to survive. He floats along on remnants of the boat and eventually ends up on Calypso's island, trapped for ten years. So I do believe that the gods have the power of free will, but that the people do as well. For example, Poseidon chose to wreck their ship, and Odysseus chose to float on the remnants and suffer for nine days floating to Calypso's island. Couldn't he have chosen to just give up, and abandon the raft? Or was it because he was fated to return home someday, that that wasn't even a choice? I am honestly not sure of the answer. However, I definitely think that Odysseus thinks he can control his fate. He is constantly questioning the gods and thinking his ideas are better.
ReplyDeleteI wanted to respond to something that Kala mentioned in her post about many people today thinking that everything happens for a reason. I definitely agree that many people today have this mind set, including myself at times. I almost wonder though if this isn't something people choose to think in order to make themselves feel better about their current situation. For example, often times when a guy breaks up with his girlfriend or visa versa, their friends will say that "everything happens for a reason, you're better off." It seems like sometimes people just say that though because it's easier than facing the truth, like maybe he/she just didn't like you. I would like to believe that God has a plan for me because I think he would be able to make a much better one than I could, but I am still not sure.
I believe Odysseus has control on his fate but not his destiny. As discussed in class there is a difference between destiny and fate. I believe Odysseus can control his fate but not his destiny. If his destiny is to die by someone's hand then it will happen. But if the god's try and control his fate by making him do something then I believe he has the freewill to escape that fate.
ReplyDeleteDepending on what people believe now-a-days in the 21st century it could be the same as what some may have thought back then. People back then believed that gods control their destiny and with religons today some believe that a god controls their lives. Along those same lines almost all people back then believe in some form of higher power. However now in the 21st century some people have the free will not to believe in any such high power and believe they control their fate and destiny.
Christie, here is a verse in response to you. "'For I know the plans I have for you,' declares the LORD, 'plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." (Jeremiah 29:14) As a Christian I do believe that God has some things planned for us, but I also believe that we can choose whether or not to go along with His plans. I have always thought of "fate" as the path that one is supposed to take, such as the plans that God has for us. "Destiny," on the other hand, I have always thought of as unalterable and beyond one's control. Odysseus seems bound by fate, but not destiny. Poseidon's fate for Odysseus is to never return to his home, Ithica. Odysseus has other plans and spends the story trying to return home. *spoiler for those who do not know the complete story* In spite of his fate, Odysseus returns home in the end, proving that destiny holds no sway over him.
ReplyDeleteI think in our culture today, most people think that they can control their fate, that they make things happen for themselves. That is, until something bad happens to them. Usually when things like this happen we all want someone to blame it on. I agree with Luke, I believe that Odysseus believes he controls his fate however, he isn't aware of what his fate is leading him to. He hopes his destiny will lead him back home to Ithaca, but he won't know till either he steps foot on shore there or he finds himself among all the dead in Hades. When things go wrong for Odysseus that is when he starts yelling or pleading to the gods asking why they are mad or to deliver him from harm. He blames his misfortunes on them, which maybe be rightly placed, but this would then say that we do not control our own fate, but that the gods do. I think the gods are fickle, they love a person one moment only to hate them the next. In this story I feel like the gods like to try and control everyones fate. They like to think they are in control, if they aren't in control it means they have no power. In the story, Odysseus creates his fate, but his actions bring him good and bad consquences from the gods that further drive him toward or away from his destiny of being back home in Ithaca.
ReplyDeleteToday's society is divided on the idea of fate. Many religous people feel that God has a plan for them, which what I get from that is that their lives are already decided for them. While others believe that they have control over their fate and destiny. Their decisions are their own and can choose whatever path they want.
ReplyDeleteI think in the Odyssey the characters believe that they do not have control of their destiny or their fate, the gods are pulling their strings in many ways. While many may think that the gods know best, I don't think Odysseus trusts them all the time. For example when he is about to crash his boat and the goddess comes out of the sea and tells him what to do, he doesn't listen. I don't think he fully trusts the gods and perhaps wants to control his own fate and make his own choices. I believe he wants a say in his future because thus far the gods had sorta messed up his life and his journey home.
In my opinion, fate has been a means for Odysseus to receive his "punishments" for the actions he has done out of his own free will. For example, he blinded the cyclops Polyphemus. This action, that was done out of free will, caused Poseidon to become angry with Odysseus and thus caused many of the hardships Odysseus has faced on the sea. In the story, Tiresias say to Odysseus "god will make it hard for you -I know- you will never escape the one who shakes the earth, quaking with anger at you still, still enraged because you blinded the Cyclops, his dear son. Even so, you and your crew may still reach home, suffering all the way" (252 line 113). Odysseus replies, "surely the gods have spun this out as fate" (254 line 158). In this passage Odysseus acknowledges the fact that fate is acting in his life. I believe these passages show that fate seems to function as a vital part of The Odyssey.
ReplyDeleteIn the 21st century, I believe fate and destiny are words used only in a positive connotation. As said in the example in the prompt above, we use fate and destiny to talk about a positive action that we believe was bound to happen in our lives. Other than that, I do not see fate or destiny used today.
Oh hm...it's one of those complicated subjects that I'm positive about. I feel like it depends on who you are talking to but I think most people these days are less of the fate and destiny and more of whatever happens, happens. That isn't how I am but most people that I have come into contact with feel that way. Compared to back then and in the Odyssey (when they were completely about their fate and what the gods had chosen for them) it has sort of dissapeared. We live in a world where many people are only worried about themselves and that is where the "whatever happens" attitude comes into play. To us (not everyone, including myself) there isn't a higher power, and if there is, we don't care about it. It's too much to think about and a waste of their time.
ReplyDeleteI am very strong in my faith. I do believe that everything happens for a reason, I live by that. Sometimes we do not know why things happen to us, especially when they are bad things. In a way I do believe that we have some control over our own fate. We make our own choices, we choose the people we have in our lives, and we are responsible for our actions. So, it is on us in a way to take the time to make careful life choices.
ReplyDeleteI do believe that in the Odyssey the characters feel like the gods control everything that they do. They have to please the gods, so they want to do what will make them happy. I do also believe though, that they are free to make their own choices. Odysseus is a married man even though he was stuck on Calypso's island for many years he could have made the choice not to be tempted by her and have stayed faithful to his wife.
As for our destiny I believe that god controls that. He has a plan for all of us, we don't know what that plan is. We can control some of the things in our lives, but not everything. I feel like Odysseus and the other characters do not have control over their destiny's.
For the time period that the Odyssey was written Greek culture believed that the gods had control over them and could determine their fate. But Greeks did not view the gods as all knowing and they did not have complete control over mortals. Greeks thought of the gods as immortals with powers that had nothing better to do except meddle in their mortal lives. Also if a mortal wanted something they would worship a god and ask for favors. Also a mortal such as Odysseus could fool a god. The character Odysseus shows this in his encounters with the gods. Sometimes he is aware of his own free will in the choices he makes and other times he is unaware of the gods controlling him or watching over him. In book 5 and 6 this very evident in his interactions with Athena. He also blames the gods for his troubles and accuses them as the cause for his suffering. Odysseus brings these misfortunes on himself and in a way is using the gods as escape goats. In today's society and way of thinking people do not believe that gods have any control over them and that human beings are in charge of their destines and by our choices we make in life we either benefit or suffer due to those choices.
ReplyDeleteFate, for me, it sounds more likely to a process to ones' destiny, in which, people get punished or helped by the Gods. The Fate is most likely controlled by someone else, in the case of Odyssey, every mortal's fate is controlled by Gods. For instance, (Book 3, line 148-9 P111) "Zeus contrived in his heart a fatal homeward run for all the Achaeans who were fools..." However, by making choices and fight against the God's control, people can escape or turn their fate the other way around and head to the destiny that they find promising again. It's also safe to say that people can have multiple fates depending on the situation (where, when they were born, etc) but they can only have one destiny as they make choices. Fate is something that has not ended yet, and it is always something that is not settled and your next fate can change all the time when you make choices.
ReplyDeleteDestiny is like a mission to the person that hardly changes, and they will need to make choices to approach to their destiny, however one may never get to their subjective destiny but arrive at the objective destiny of their own making. For example, in Book1 (P79, line 53-71), "Odysseus longs to die," but because of being such a great hero, he will not end like that but still made his choice to try to go back home when Gods offered help. He is also a "seasoned veteran cursed by fate so long," but he still had the free will to struggle through this fate by using his agency. Simple, his fates are determined by Gods and altered by his agency, but his destiny is determined to born as a hero and go back to Ithaca.
I believe that the choice you make (in relation to what kind of person you are) will affect one's life entirely, and what happened in Odyssey again prove to the world that it would worth a fight to what you truly want. It remembers me the book "the Secret," in which they talk about the law of attraction which is known by all successful scientists, politicians etc. The mindset you have and the choices you make of whether to be positive and try to work your fate out will determine whether you can get to your destiny.
I started talking about this in my last post. I mentioned how the gods and different prophecies decide what is going to happen to people. Decide their fates essentially. I feel that during this time, they strongly believed that everything was set out for them. The gods create the plan for their lives. They make it up as they go, but most of the big parts of their lives are decided for them. This is proved with Odysseus and him being prophesied to return home to Ithaca. Over and over again, it is said that we will "come home late and come a borken man--all shipmates lost, alone in a stranger's ship--and let him find a world of pain at home! (pg 228, line 592-593)
ReplyDeleteReading a little more into that line, said by the Cyclops, perhaps it isn't all set out to begin with. Its their free will, their ability so say and do what they want, that leads others to pray to the gods and therefore create a fate for them to match what their free will has done. When Odysseus blinded the Cyclops, he prayed to Poseidon who then made Odysseus' life very difficult until he got home. But, had he not taken the course that led him to his island, or if the crew had not been so hostile with the Cicones (book 9), they may have been able to stay upon that island longer and not have had to ship out with they did. These choices are all things that brought him to the Cyclops and his difficult journey. His free will choices made others make their own choices and as each choice is made, fates are made.
The questions in this blog bring up ideas that I have thought about often. Do we all have our own destiny? When we are bron is there some "higher being" that has our life already planned out, and there is nothing we can do to chang that? I used to believe in destiny, that my life was already planned and what is meant to be will be. But over time, I have come to change my mind. Now, I strongly believe that life is what you make it. So, I guess that means I believe in free will. Things in our lives happen because of the choices and decisions we make, not anyone else. If you are unhappy with your life, then do something about it. I honestly feel that people who are unhappy with the way their life turned out use the idea of fate as a cop out. They want to blame it on others or whoever they think is in charge, when they have the power to change it themselves.
ReplyDeleteI can't really use this theory for the Odyssey because it seems as if the Gods really do control every ones fate. If a God or Goddess is mad at one of the characters they will stop at nothing to make their lives hell. So, the characters actually do not have much free will because their own decisions could end up ruining their lives.
Fate: the will or principle or determining cause by which things in general are believed to come to be as they are or events to happen as they do: an enevitable and often advers outcome, condition or end
ReplyDeleteDestiny: something to which a person is destined: a predetermined course of events.
Free will: voluntary choice or decision: freedome of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention.
Agency: the capacity, condition or state of acting or exerting power.
You can fight against fate by exercising your free will. However, free will is limited within the scope of destiny. While destiny and fate are “inevitable” and “predetermined” mortals in the Odyssey are given free will and Odysseus exerts agency a lot. He argues with the nymph and goes against her will on page 163, and continuously fights against the advice the gods and the blind prophet give him. He exercises free will and believes he has power over events (agency) when he dons his “heroic armor, seized long spears in both hands and marched out on the half-deck, forward, hoping from there to catch the first glimpse of Scylla, ghoul of the cliffs, swooping to kill my men.”(page 278). He does this even though Calypso told him to sail as fast as he could past Scylla and take the six men as a loss. The six men do die, like Calypso said they would and Odysseus’s men are struck by the fates. In today’s world I think many people feel the same way as Odysseus. We can’t just sit and watch bad things happen because someone says it’s “fate”. At the same time many people believe that their life is not totally in their hands and that God really does have a plan for them. Others believe that life is completely and only what you make it, and the only person controlling their decisions is themselves. While I subscribe to the former, I don’t think English class is the place to get into religious debates. It’s important to note though that free will is an important concept in Christianity and that we believe that God doesn’t make us do anything. He only shows the way, our destiny, and we must decide using our free will. Once we decide, we exercise our agency in order to best follow Gods will, or our fate. I hope the definitions help, if you’re still having trouble,and please keep in mind that the last few sentences were (while believed by me) meant to show the use and meaning of the words in question as I see them and not an attack or representation of anyone else’s thoughts or beliefs.
I believe that in the Odyssey, people may have their destinies planned out; however, I believe that people have the free will to chose how they will reach that destiny. In the first book, Zeus says that the people are blaming all of their miseries on the gods, but he claims that they bring those miseries onto themselves. "Ah how shameless--the way these mortals blame the gods. From us alone, they say, come all their miseries, yes, but they themselves, with their own reckless ways, compound their pains beyond their proper share" (78, line 38). This gives the notion that the gods do have control over what happens in people's lives, yet people also have control, too.
ReplyDeleteAnother example of faith and will is on page 80, line 91. "But come, all of us here put heads together now, work out his journey home so Odysseus can return. Lord Poseidon, I trust, will let his anger go. How can he stand his ground against the will of all the gods at once--one god alone?" This quote shows that the gods have the free will to chose the fate of a mortal. Poseidon's will is to make Odysseus suffer, but he will have to allow him to make it home because it's the will of the other gods. This quote also explains that Odysseus will make it home; however it does not say HOW he will make it home. I believe that Odysseues's actions on his journey are a matter of choice.
I believe the question of fate, destiny, and free will is really complicated. I like to think that there is a God who has our destinies planned out and that everything does happen for a reason. However, I also like to believe that I have some control of what happens in my life. This is why I believe that maybe God does have an "ultimate" plan for all of us, but I believe that we have control of how we will reach that destiny. In addition, I do not believe that our destiny has to be set in stone. I believe that our actions that we make everyday can alter or change what destiny we are suppose to have.
Ok the main thing that brought me to fate is where telemachus is arriving at King Menelaus's palace and the King finds out whose son Telemachus is and he states on page 129 "and i swore that when he came i'd give him a hero's welcome..." That right there made me think although it wasn't Odysseus who the king was hoping it would be i feel like it was fate that Telemachus showed up asking the king for help and advice considering the king owed Odysseus for all the things he did for him. As for Agency i would say on page 180 "Pallas Athena, harboring kindness for the hero, drifted a heavy mist around him, shielding him from any swaggering islander who'd cross his path," I chose this as agency because although Odysseus did pretty much what he wanted he was not able to always do things without encountering problems. He did not have the agency to do so because if people were to find out who he was there was a chance that he had made an enemy with them and also the Gods controlled alot of what he did. As for free will I would say that Telemachus has free will although he is seeking out help from others to get answers he controls his thoughts and actions with people when he doesn't tell them who he is right away he tries to manipulate them before they know who he is. I believe people believe in destiny because a popular saying that has been around for a while is everything happens for a reason meaning to me that it was our destiny for that thing to happen to us, I do believe people think they can find ways around it or maybe improve what is their destiny by making choices but in the end there will be a semi-similar outcome to it.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Rachel about how it seems that the characters' destiny is controled by the gods and goddesses, but not their free will. And for that matter not their fate either. In the book it is believe that while fate is closely tied to destiny, fate, from my viewpoint, is something more like chance. For instance, take the example we discussed in class, when Odyessus was fighting against the storm the god Posideon conjured up and Athena appeared to him offering him help, he refused it and went his own way about trying to survive. His destiny was to survive, but he had the free will to deny what fate, or chance in this matter, had offered him.
ReplyDeleteWhile the Odyssey has showed destiny to be control by multiple gods, I believe that my destiny has be predetermined by one solitary God. It is hard for me to seperate fate and destiny, being as they are so often used interchangable. My family has always used the saying " Don't push fate" and in that context fate is something like luck. I believe that fate is more in our control that destiny is for that matter. And while we have free will to make day to day decisions, destiny, I believe to be set in stone.
I feel that destiny is pre-determined and fate can be altered according to one's deeds. odysseus is destined to reach back home after covering an ill- fated journey. He encounters many problems which are a result of his own actions. He was fated to be at the receiving end of Poseidon wrath due to what he did to Cyclops. Eventhough all the gods are with odysseus, they cannot do anything about poseidon rage. Thus, it was destined for odysseus to suffer.
ReplyDeleteI think people of the 21st century have their own perceptions on such matter. I do not think it would be right to generalize that people do or don't believe in destiny. I personally believe in destiny. I believe that destiny plays a major role in life and surely think that whatever happens it happens for a reason. I believe what we do or think today affects our future. So we can change our fate by doing good and by being on the right track.
I believe people in 21st century culture believe in free will more than fate or destiny. Girls are read fairy tales when they are little about how someday their prince will come, but we learn quickly that life is more about the choices you make and you must work to get what you want. There are many philosophers who argue for predetermination, that your life is determined from the very beginning, and there is nothing you can do about how it will play out. This follows the same lines as the belifs of the characters in the novel. In The Odyssey, the characters' lives are out of their hands. The gods decide what will happen to them. no matter how hard a mortal tries, if a god has a different plan for them, their lives will always turn out according to how the gods desire. However, mortals can pray to the gods for help and have some influence over how the gods decide. Page 166 states, "So the man prayed and the god stemmed his current, held his surge at once..." because Odysseus prayed to the god to calm the storm, the god complied. However, the choice was still made by the gods, so fate played a large part in this scene.
ReplyDeleteHowever, the characters seem to have mixed feelings about who to attribute their successes to. Odysseus is viewed as a great hero who's cunning skills helped bring down Troy. They give thanks to the gods for their successes, but seem to take equal or even more responsibility for the things they have done. they do not see themselves as tools for the gods to use.
On page 129, line 161, Helen describes the battle of Troy, "launching your headlong battles just for my sake, shameless whore that I was." She seems to be taking responsibility for her actions to some degree. She didn't simply say, Aphrodite made me do it, it was out of my control. However, it may be easier for us as readers to understand that these things are happening because of the gods' will because we can ready about the disputes and inner doings of the gods whereas the characters to not have that luxury. I think the characters think they have a mixture of free will and fate. They have control of certain situations, but as a whole their existance is up to the will of the gods.
So far, there seems to be a strong blending of fate and free will. After the fall of Troy, the negligence of the Greek soldiers to properly thank the gods was free will, leading to their fateful return home from Troy. As Kala said, Odysseus chose to blind the cyclops angering Poseidon, which led to his fate in ending up with Calypso. A final example is Odysseus' trip home. There are many times he could have given up and either died (while floundering in the ocean,) found a new spouse and not returned home (Calypso or Nausicaa,) or simply angered the wrong person who could keep him from returning home (Arete or Alcinous.) These are examples of the free will he had that led to his fate--the gods deciding to return him home.
ReplyDeleteThere's a part in book 11 page 253, where Odysseus meets the famous seer. He tells about how Poseidon is still mad because Odysseus blinded the Cyclops, that he may reach home as long as the crew and he curb their wild desire, otherwise the ship and his men will be destroyed. He tells what will happen once Odysseus does make it home and how he must honor the gods. Then these lines come up "And at last your own death will steal upon you..a gentle, painless death, far from the sea it comes to take you down, borne down with the years in ripe old age with all your people there in blessed peace around you All that I have told you will come true" then Odysseus replies " Oh Tiresias, I replied as the prophet finished, surely the gods have spun this out as fate, the gods themselves".
ReplyDeleteThese passages reaffirm some of my thoughts. I think that fate is something that happens because of your freewill. Tiresias knows that Odysseus and his crew will either not be able to curb their desires, or they will find someway to escape it. It leaves them their freewill to choose how they want their story to end, but yet the path they choose IS their fate. After someone uses their freewill to decide their fate, that path they take is something that could affect someone else's fate- this is agency because their choices are affecting someone else's. Hope I explained it okay because it makes sense to me! Going back to the story, this means that Odysseus's agency will affect all of the crew's lives as to how or if they make it home.
I found reading all of the posts very interesting, first of all and I think that everyone had some interesting things to say. Thanks to Natalie for looking up all those words it helped clear some things up.
ReplyDeleteIn the story of Odysseus, the characters have agency and they have free will, however fate (through the wishes of the gods) ultimately controls their situation/destiny. In essence, the gods do not control what they do, but how they end up. Often a god will tell one of the characters what he should or will do, but they have the agency to sway from that. However, they will still end up doing what the gods say they because it is their fate. When the gods work against each other, that's where it can get tricky. But Zeus casts the most important vote, so to speak. It seems that no matter what a character does, they cannot change the destiny the gods have layed out for them.
Now, to continue the ongoing debate... it is obvious that the Odyssey clashes with some people's beliefs of the 21st century. I think it IS somewhere in the middle. Being a Christian, I also believe that God has a plan (a destiny so to speak) for me; for those who do not, I am assuming (I know what that does) that they believe in "champion free will." In my PSY 333 class which is the Psychology of Motivation (not like the cheesy motivation "go you!" but like why people behave the way they do), we have had this discussion about 'free will vs. determinism' and the end result was pretty much the same as this one except it got even more controversial with the addition of topics such as evolution. I think it is very cool that we can match up ideas from a story written 2800 years ago to issues in our society today, but it was much more concrete in Odysseus's day.
There is definitely a blend between fate and free will throughout The Odyssey, but I feel as though fate is the stronger of the two themes in the book. For example, throughout the story, Odysseus encounters multiple gods who guide him throughout his journey. When he encounters these gods, they "advise" him on the best path, decisions, or actions on the impending future. Typically, when Odysseus does not follow through with these actions, decisions, or thoughts his world is thrown upside down and a terrible circumstance falls in front of him. Specifically, in book 12 line 21, Circe- a goddess, warns Odysseus and his crew by saying "[But] I will set you a course and chart each seamark, so neither on sea nor land will some new trap ensnare you in trouble, make you suffer more." This quote implies that the gods are aware of what is going to happen to mortals, and if they care enough to listen to the gods, they will benefit from their wisdom. From this quote, and many other circumstances throughout the story, fate is the predominant message, especially since it's implied throughout the story that the gods know what will happen next.
ReplyDeleteHowever, in our daily lives, it is not this simple. I believe there is more of a blend between fate and free will within out lives, especially with differences in religion and cultures.
Fate and destiny in The Odyssey seem to be part of their religious beliefs. Throughout the story there are people who predict things and tell the main characters what will happen soon. Most times it is a God, like when Athena makes a prophecy to Telemachus in Book 1 about Odysseus being alive and he is on his way home(pg. 84). It is as if the gods influence to make sure the characters fulfill their destinies. Destiny is what has to happen, it must happen, it will happen, even Zeus says so in Book 5, “[…] more plunder than he could ever have won from Troy if Odysseus had returned intact with his fair share. So his destiny ordains. He shall see his loved ones, reach his high-roofed house, his native land at last”(pg 153). If the gods create the characters destiny then it makes sense that the gods intervene to make sure that the characters reach their destiny.
ReplyDeleteFate in a definition nowadays comes out as destiny. It is fate that Odysseus is the only one to survive the storm in Book 5. It is destiny that Odysseus reaches home and takes back his kingdom. Fate is more the short term predetermined fate while destiny is the long term.
Although it has been a very long time since the days of Odysseus, I don't feel like meaning of fate has changed. When you look at the journey that Odysseus is on, it's easy to believe that he will pave his own path. He is such a strong character that it seems like no matter what he faces, he has the upper hand. When he encounters the Cyclops you know he will be ok. The world today is similar to this because a lot of the time things are laid out for us, with an end in sight. As mfunn420 states in the last post, FATE is what helps Odysseus survive the storm in Book 5. And eventually destiny allows him to retake his kingdom. However, fate and destiny are very hard words to differentiate.
ReplyDeleteIn my personal perception of Odysseus, he has little control of his destiny. I feel like that gods are pulling these little string to make thing work they why they want them to. For example, on pg. 162 Cadmus come to save him when his ship is being wrecked by the ocean. She stop the ocean and tells him to follow her word.She wants him to leave the ship and swim, then she will provide him with scarf to protect him. However, he doesn't trust her/doesn't fully listen and begins to think about what he wants and decided to stay with the ship. But then Posedion make that huge wave and he changes his mind and follow Cadmus's plan. So in a way he tried to do what he wanted to the gods forced him to follow a plan they created for him. He tried to change a little thing and it was out of his control.
ReplyDeleteI feel like the mortals are like puppets for the gods.
There is a major difference between fate and destiny. Fate can often have more of a negative affiliation. You are fated to be poor. You are fated to die young. It seems when something is "fated" it is like saying "this is going to happen whether you like it or not."
ReplyDeleteDestiny however, has a much brighter and positive meaning. Destiny in many instances reminds me of some way of fulfillment. Your destiny is your ultimate goal in life.
Although you will hear "fate" being used both negatively and positively, you never hear someone being described as "destined to fail in life."
Fate and destiny can often be attributed to the Gods, especially in the Odyssey.
Odysseus seems like a man who takes credit where credit is due. For example when he and his crew are about to come in contact with the sirens, he assures them that he will get them through this situation, just like he got them through the situation with Cyclops. Here, he takes credit, but Odysseus also never fails to attribute his fate to the Gods, which is illustrated in the opening scene where he sings praise to his muse.
I feel that Odysseus doesn't have control over either his fate or his destiny. I feel that fate is more a part of the journey while destiny is more how is journey will end. I feel like it was Odysseus's fate was to go to all of the islands and take a long journey. However his destiny is to get home, and it was clear that nobody could prevent him from making it home, they could only make it his fate to take longer.
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