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Last week in class and on this blog we discussed how Jane Eyre's ideas (and Charlotte Bronte's as well) on the West Indies and Jamaica were speculative, informed by the available travel accounts, visitors from the colonies, and news reports rather than firsthand knowledge. Neither Jane nor her creator ever had the chance to visit the islands to decide for herself what the places were like. This allowed Bronte to make Jamaica (at the time a subject of the British Empire) into a kind of "blank canvas" onto which she projected her fictional Mason family, and as some critics argue, her prejudices as a relatively privileged member of the British Empire. Is something similar happening in Wide Sargasso Sea? Consider the following exchange between Antoinette and Edward:
Next time she spoke she said, 'The earth is red here, do you notice?'
'It's red in parts of England too.'
'Oh England, England,' she called back mockingly, and the sound went on and on like a warning I did not choose to hear. (Rhys 64-65).
Antoinette and Edward (as they do throughout the novel) are miscommunicating here on several levels. As they ride out to begin their honeymoon Antoinette tries to share her knowledge and observations of the island she loves more than any other place. Edward is also trying to share his memories of another island thousands of miles away that he loves and considers home. Why does she mock him here? What "warning" does Edward ignore?
What do you make of the other passages where England is discussed? How does the idea/ideal of England hold meaning for different characters? How do these passages in which the characters attempt to define/describe/discuss England matter to the novel? How does England function as an imagined place for Antoinette? For Christophine? For Edward?
I think that Antoinette believes that her home is the only place that not only matters, but is the way it is. She has never been anywhere else so she can't imagine what other places could possibly be like. To her England is just a far off place, that she can only imagine and I think she imagines it negatively because it isn't her home. I don't think she can imagine loving or being as happy as she was in the West Indes. In reality every place you go has many of the same qualities as everywhere else, but while also being different. When a person talks about their home they always mention something that holds real personal value and I think both Edward and Antoinette do this throughout the book, I can't just pinpoint one. Not only that, but I feel as though they are competing to have the better home, I'm not really sure why they would be, but it is just the way I interpreted their disscussions of their home. Maybe it could be because they both want to live at their home country so they are trying to prove that their home is the better choice, like I said I don't know. I find alot of their conversations very confusing.
ReplyDeleteWell first of all in the quote you provided I think she is mocking him because he is always up on his high horse about England and so she is just mocking him in that sense. I could just picture her saying it in a fancy, English voice to mock how he thinks England is so much better. I think the warning he is missing is how she is going to change when she goes to England because later in the book on page 111 she says to Christophine, "I will be a different person when I live in England and different things will happen to me."
ReplyDeleteThere is a passage on page 85 where Rochester is reflecting to himself about conversations that he has had with Antoinette about England which says, "She often questioned me about England and listened attentively to my answers, but I was certain that nothing I said made much difference. er mind was already made up. Some romantic novel, a stray remark never forgotten, a sketch, a picture, a song, a waltz, some note of music, and her ideas were fixed. I could not change them and probably nothing would." So according to Rochester, Antoinette has a very imaginitive view of England and no matter what Rochester tells her about the reality of it, she will maintain seeing it how she sees it.
Antoinette largely bases her opinions off England though on a dream she has had. On page 101 she says, "For I know that house where I will be cold and not belonging, the bed I shall lie in has red curtains and I have slept there many times before, long ago. How long ago? In that bed I will dream the end of my dream...but I must not think like this, I must remember about chandeliers and dancing, about swans and roses and snow." So Antoinette has this idea that she will be living in a foreign land and even her house will be foreign and she won't belong to it, which is sort of creepy that she dreams that because it comes true for the most part. However, she then goes on to say that she can't believe that and forces herself to imagine England with all the stereotypical elements like chandeliers and dancing instead. This passage is important because she is constantly trying to fool herself into believing things to make herself feel better or perhaps less crazy. Plus, it is a huge foreshadowing to what happens later in the novel.
There is one last passage I found on page 162 when Antoinette is actually living in the castle and talking about how she sneaks out of her room at night all the time and she says, "Then I open the door and walk into their world. It is, as I always knew, made of cardboard. I have seen it before somewhere, this cardboard world where everything is coloured brown or dark red or yellow that has no light in it... They tell me I am in England but I don't believe them. We lost our way to England. When? Where?" This quote just shows how Antoinette still has this imagined idea of what England is supposed to be, and since she has been locked up in the attic the whole time, she really has no way of knowing that she is in England. She can believe she is there, but she really can't know. Also, she says "as I always knew," which implies that she has always had this idea about England made up from accounts from other people and her reoccuring dream and Rochester was probably right when he said he wouldn't be able to change her mind about it. I think a lot of people might interpret this passage as really highlighting how crazy she has become, but I think anybody would have to doubt where they really are if they have been locked inside an attic for so long.
I also find the passage on page 162 that Christie pointed out to be important. "Then I open the door and walk into their world. It is, as I always knew, made of cardboard.” I agree with Christie that this passage shows how she has an idealized view of England. I also think that we can see how different she thinks England is from her home. As Emily pointed out, all places have some commonalities. In order to see these commonalities we have to be willing to. Antoinette sees going to England as leaving the familiar behind and entering a completely new world. This is seen when she points out “..and walked into their world.” She does not think that there will be any similarities to her home and she is not willing to see any that may be there. In addition, the fact that she describes England as cardboard solidifies how she feels about England. She believes that she cannot the same feeling she has had a home in England. Because she describes England as cardboard, it shows how she does not think she can fit in easily. This is a very pessimistic view of change, where as if she thought there was any possibility for fitting into the new world she might have described England as an open canvas.
ReplyDeleteGoing off of what Emily said, I have to agree that Antoinette is discontented with the idea of England. However, I disagree in regards to that I think her discontent is rooted in her overall anguish and desire to be in England. I guess another way to describe this feeling is sort of a, wanting what you can't have, therefore you'll just hate it because it's out of your reach. Even though throughout the book Antoinette describes England in a repetitively negative light, I can't think but to wonder if this means shes actually discontented with England itself, or just more so upset with her impending life where she's at. Also, I believe that since she does think about England frequently, it shows how it is on her mind, and how she potentially can idealize it.
ReplyDeleteThe passage that is provided Antoinette is mocking Edward because just like Christie said he is always on his high horse about England. One moment that this difference is partly attempted to be understood is when Rochester and Antoinette are talking. “‘Is it true,’ she said, ‘that England is like a dream? Because one of my friends who married an Englishman wrote and told me so. She said this place London is like a cold dark dream sometimes. I want to wake up.’ ‘Well,’ I answered annoyed, ‘that is precisely how your beautiful island seems to me, quite unreal and like a dream’” (Rhys 80). He is to help Antoinette understand how he feels about her island to how she feels about England. The idea that the island is a dream is only to Antoinette not him because he is actually there on the island and she has never been there. Antoinette’s view is also from her what her friend told her.
ReplyDeleteChristie quoted several passages that strongly support the belief that Rochester believes that Antoinette has a made up vision of England. The quote on page 85, “he often questioned me about England and listened attentively to my answers, but I was certain that nothing I said made much difference. Her mind was already made up” is a great example of Rochester pointing out that Antoinette has her own made up belief about England.
ReplyDeleteEven when she is in England, she does not believe it because it looks nothing like she had imagined.
“'When we went to England,’ I said.
‘You fool,’ she said, ‘this is England.’
‘I don’t believe it,’ I said, ‘and I never will believe it’” (165).
Finally, Antoinette tells Rochester that she believes England to be like a dream. "'Is it true,' she said, 'that England is like a dream? Because one of my friends who married an Englishman wrote and told me so. She said this place London is like a cold dark dream sometimes. I want to wake up'" (73).
I agree with Christie's post regarding Antoinette having her own notions about England. " Nothing that I told her influenced her at all" (Rhys 56). She was just not ready to listen to what Rochester had to say about England as she was unwilling to leave her homeland. "If she was a child she was not a stupid child but an obstinate one. She often questioned me about England and listened attentively to my answers, but I was certain that nothing I said made much difference. Her mind was already made up"(Rhys 56) These inner thoughts of Rochester show the reader the 'obstinate' nature of Antoinette. She was not looking forward to any change in her life and her ideas were fixed and nothing that Rochester said or did could change her mind.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Jenny said earlier. We see her negative attitude towards England on numerous occasions in the book. It is probably because she wants what she can't have and England is out of her reach. I think her reflection on England comes as a result of her not being satisfied with her life. Both Antoinette and Edward are defending their respective home lands which is not at all out of the ordinary. Finally, she looks as England as a way to escape the problems in her life and that things would start to go her way if she went there. The problem is that she doesn't realize that she is there and her life is still in shambles.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Emily since Antoinette has only been to one place she can’t really imagine living anywhere else. She can only picture English she can image how her life will be anywhere but the West Indes.
ReplyDeleteI found on page 158 she is talking about all the things that they tell her about England, and she doesn’t want people to come to the house. One of the lines says she don’t come to your beautiful house to beg you to marry with her. Just this one line just says that she does not behave like that so others should not behave in that manner either. They should not show up unexpected and ask someone to marry them.
Overall, I do not think that Antoinette is happy in England but Rochester is only happy in England.
I agree with Emily, I think both of them are very protective of their idea of their home. They each think of eachother's homes as a dream. They cant picture it, they just keep hearing about them. I think she just keeps hearing about England and she doesn't understand it and she doesn't think it can compare with her home. I can't find where but she said she loves this place more than anywhere. So to her she doesn't need England and there is no way in her mind that it could be better. I think that Edward always thought this place was like a dream as well, it is probably nothing like he thought it would be. And he definitely doesn't seem to understand it after arriving there. I think they both want to talk about their homelands, and they each get tired of hearing about it. So they each end up not listening and then insulting them. Which just leads them to being protective of their homes and then being offended.
ReplyDeleteI agree with both Emily And Jenny. I also think that for both Edward and Antoinette there homelands are the only place for them. And hearing how another place is better than there homeland is something they just can't fathom and therefore don't want to talk about. In their minds the rest of the world just doesn't exist for all they care.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Emily and the others, that Antoinette is not engaged to the surroundings of England. She believes her home is in the West Indies because that's where she is from and that's what she knows.
ReplyDeleteI believe that it is something that is common in most people, the "no place like home" feeling. It's something that most can relate to. Because of this familiarity the author is connecting with the reader, and having him/her become connected to Antoinette.
I agree that she is disconnected to England and Europe, that's why she showed a little bit fear of going. And the mocking was maybe just trying to hide the fear, because she was just repeating the "England, England," but had noting to comment on.
ReplyDeleteI also found the passage on p101 about her feelings. The coldness was also mentioned several times in the book. It's also an evidence of demonstration of this disconnection. But here I think she knew it was inevitable to go there and she heard all about it for Edward along with her own impressions, so I guess she was kind of looking forward to go but with the fear of being alone there. (not that really left alone by herself, but feeling of not knowing anything in person at a strange place when she was so in love with the life at another place.)
From page 100 to 101 Antoinette's whole description and questions about England, she not only showed her fear and insecure feelings about England, but also showed her expectations and curiosity about what is going to happen there. All her expectations were based on the "rosy pink in the geography book map," "Exports, coal, iron, wool," "names"..... that's probably why she felt even more anxious, she kind of couldn't believe in those things she had never experienced but learnt from somewhere else. And it is also why she couldn't take in any of the stories on p85. He is communicating to her dream, and she is communicating without believing in.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Emily, i think because Rhys was reluctant to live in England herself, her displeasure of living in England was shown through her character's perspective in the novel. Through the book she was able to give a voice to the Creoles who suffered through the colonization of the Carrabeans by the English. England is not really a home, its a place of ideals that they have been tld to embrace.
ReplyDeleteI as well definitley agree with what Emily has said. Antionette believes that her home in the West Indies matters the most. This is because it is the only thing that she knows of, where she has lived their her whole life. When you grow up somewhere and live somewhere for a long time that place becomes a part of who you are. For example I have lived in New Jersey all my life. So, when I came out to Indiana for school it was a big adjustment. I have grown to like Indiana, but New Jersey is still a big part of me. Antionette can't really relate to England because she didn't grow up there. Rochester has admiration for England because it is where he is from. His home, England holds a place in his heart. Both, Antionette and Rochester have different views on England for the main reason that they both have had different life experiences.
ReplyDeleteI, too, agree with Emily. As we discussed at the beginning of the novel, Jean Rhys believed that Jane Eyre was biased against the West Indies. This is reciprocated by in this novel by how many of the characters view England. The Caribbeans largely view it as a place they do not want to go, and once there, they wish to return to where they came. Conversely, the English view the Caribbeans as a place lower than England and would rather return home than stay in the Caribbean. As has been suggested by many people, this is a situation of homesickness/"no place like home."
ReplyDeleteAntoinette is mocking Edward because he is always very “high and mighty” or on a “high horse” like Christie said. Edward was raised in England and because of the social prejudices it isn’t surprising that he would come to the Island feeling superior to everyone the there. That doesn’t make it right, but that’s how it was. Antoinette sees this and mocks Edward for it. I think the warning might foreshadow the trouble that even England will hold for Edward in the future, and that maybe, if the two could have worked out from the beginning, how different the story could have been. If Edward wasn’t so self-absorbed and “on a high horse”, if he didn’t come to the island with all his prejudices and sort of already hating everything about it, could he have saved Antoinette and help her over her bad childhood?
ReplyDeleteOn page 85 when Edward is speaking he says “Reality might disconcert her, bewilder her, hurt her, but it would not be reality. It would be only a mistake, a misfortune, a wrong path taken, her fixed ideas would never change.” This is right after the quote that Christie used. Antoinette has set ideas about England and nothing that Edward says at this point can change her mind. Not even going there and seeing England would change how she feels about the place at this point, according to Edward. This is significant because latter in the book when she is actually in England she refuses to believe it. The reality around her doesn’t jive with what her perception of what England is, so she (in her mind) can’t possibly be in England.
I don't think Rhys wanted to live in England. I think someone said earlier in their post that she was "reluctant" to live there. I really agree with that specific wording. She was very insecure about England and had fears about it. She had her own view of what it was going to be like and I think expectations can sometimes be a dangerous thing. We have these expectations and things and places we see in our own ways but when it comes down to it, those things and places may not be at all what we thought. I think this is one of the biggest reasons she had fears and anxiety directed toward England.
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